In this episode of About Podcasting, we dive deep into the world of The Ungovernable Misfits podcast. I had the pleasure of speaking with three members of the team, who shared their journey, challenges, and the principles that guide their work. We discuss the origins of the podcast, which started in late 2018 out of a passion for Bitcoin and a desire to connect with like-minded individuals. The team emphasizes the importance of maintaining integrity by avoiding bad sponsors and ensuring the privacy and security of their listeners.
We explore their workflow, from scheduling guests and recording episodes to the painstaking editing process that ensures high-quality content. The team also shares their experiences with monetization, balancing sponsorships with the dream of sustaining the podcast through podcasting 2.0 and lightning payments.
Listeners will gain insights into the technical aspects of podcast production, including the use of tools like Zencastr for recording and the challenges of finding a competent editor. The episode also highlights the creative elements, such as using GIFs for chapter art and the collaborative efforts that go into producing each episode.
Finally, the team offers valuable advice for aspiring podcasters, emphasizing the importance of perseverance, respecting your audience, and maintaining realistic expectations. Whether you're a seasoned podcaster or just starting out, this episode is packed with practical tips and inspiration to help you on your podcasting journey.
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[00:00:00]
Max BBB:
I would spend, I would say, on average, 12 hours a show, and I was doing that on top of my normal work and everything else, and it was just getting to a point where I was getting ill all the time. I mean, John used to message me constantly saying, mate, you need to stop this. You're gonna kill yourself because it was just there was no sleep. It was just constant, but it but it matters to me what goes out. I don't I'd rather not do anything at all than send something that I think, oh, that's average.
[00:00:32] AI voice:
Welcome to about podcasting, a show for podcasters. We talk about podcasting practices, tools, successes, and failures mixed with interviews and music. Hosted on podhome.fm, the most modern podcast hosting platform.
[00:00:54] Barry Luijbregts:
Welcome to another episode of About Podcasting. This week, I am talking with The Ungovernable Misfits. This group works on The Ungovernable Misfits podcast, and I speak with 3 of them. 1 of them joined our conversation later, and that's okay. I just kept the conversation as it is. We talk about why they do what they do, how they are able to keep bad sponsors and ads away, and what their workflow is. Alright. Enjoy. Why did you start this in the first place? Why did you get into podcasting?
[00:01:33] Max BBB:
I started the podcast originally. It was, I think, the end of 2018 because I was really interested in Bitcoin and everyone in my life around me in the real world just would rather do anything other than speak to me about it. So I was just like, I guess, trying to find a way to speak to people who had interest and learn from the people that I was following on Twitter and people who really knew what they were talking about with the privacy and security side of things. And I thought, well, this is the best way for me to do it because I'm not a software developer.
I'm not built for that. I'm very, very bad at it. And, I like talking to people, so that's a good way for me to learn. And, Yeah, that's how it started. And then whatever it is, 6 years later, winning for me or like being successful for me has been the fact that the podcast has never had to sell out. We've never had to take on shitty sponsors that have hurt our listeners or, fed information that isn't true. We've always been able to say what we want and not be owned. And to me, that success, things really took a big step up in the last probably year to year and a half.
We rolled things out to Uncoverable Misfits, which is our new branding. And we added clothing. We added lots of things like that. Mr. Crown came on board and helped with a lot of the artwork and the website, and he's been just a massive change to the quality of what we put out. Then John came along. He's a useless fuck and he's not here today because he doesn't know how to manage time, but he knows a lot about mining. And when he says something, he's, when he says he's going to do something, he does it. And I really like working with him. He came on after I did an interview with him and instantly got on really well. We started doing our mining show and PMM, and then Jordan came on very shortly afterwards.
I was listening to the show, likes what we were doing and offered help. I said to Jordan, look, we're not in a position where we can offer a job or payment or do anything like this. Isn't it's a successful podcast in the fact that we can do what we want, but not necessarily financially. And he said, I don't care. I just want to hear some truth. Let me help. And since children's come on board, things have really, again, taken a big step up. And the quality of what we're doing is I mean, far better than it was before and, and also changing across to Pod Homes. So, maybe Jordan can take it from there, but, that's kind of the history of it.
[00:04:50] Barry Luijbregts:
Okay. Awesome. And so what's your role now in all of this, Jordan?
[00:04:58] Jordan:
Well You're a no agenda listener Right, Barry? Yes Yeah So like in that instance I like to think of myself as like the Drep Scott to, Don Dove all misfits just the idea of like doing the back behind the scenes kind of stuff So whether it's chapters or any any technological things that have to do with the podcast and then also just buttoning everything up and you know, when the product goes out everything's kind of like wrapped up in a bow and ready for the listener
[00:05:34] Barry Luijbregts:
Yeah Okay. And we'll we'll go into workflow and and what you actually do there, for instance, with the GIF, chapter art and all that crazy stuff, later. Maybe, let's pick on something that you mentioned there, Max, where you did not sell out to, crappy sponsors and stuff. Does that mean that you do monetize with ads and sponsors?
[00:06:03] Max BBB:
It does. Yeah. We have got sponsors, but we are very, very careful who we choose, and have done from the beginning. So it's important that none of our sponsors collect data on our listeners. We care about their privacy. Mhmm. We make sure that we're not putting our listeners, potentially in harm's way because if data is being collected by these companies, whether they sell it, whether they're collaborating with government agencies or doing anything in the back end or they just get hacked and all the information leaks, it puts our listeners in harm's way and that's not acceptable to us. No matter how much money is waived in front of our faces, we will never do that.
So that's one of the criteria. And then the other is ideally that there's no risk on the back end. So when we're working with a sponsor, it's important that it's not people putting money down with the potential to either make more or get it back. It's only they're buying a product or service that is extremely clear and they buy it and they get it rather than, I don't know, some of this yield nonsense and all this kind of stuff that a lot of people were selling or taking money for minors that may arrive in the future, but you're not guaranteed a slot, that kind of stuff that went on with most podcasts. They took that money, and then listeners got fucked, so we won't do that. What we're really trying to push towards is ideally that we could do podcasting 2.0, lightning payments and boosts to sustain it.
That would be the dream and not have to have any sponsors at all. But the reality is that some of the sponsors we are just very happy with. Like, we are proud to talk about what they do, and so we don't see that as an issue. But, the big money, as everyone knows, is with the exchanges and the ones that have the risk, but we won't touch that.
[00:08:29] Barry Luijbregts:
Right. Okay. And so now you do a mix of, the sponsors and then podcasting 2.0 with lightning payments, with streaming, and with sets. Right? Yeah. That's right. Yeah.
[00:08:43] Max BBB:
So we're trying to lean in as much as we can with the podcasting 2.0 and the boosts, but, you know, the truth is it costs a lot of money to produce the show. It takes a huge amount of hours, and we have to just cover our ass. Like, all of us are working normal jobs or 2 normal jobs and doing this on top, and we just need to cover some of the editing costs and bits and pieces. And ideally, one day it would be nice if it actually helped us financially and we could put more of our time into it because it's something I've talked to Jordan a lot about and the rest of the guys is like often when you're working a normal job and you've got family and everything else, like if I'm doing 60 hours a week and then I've got family on top And then I've somehow got to do all the stuff with the podcast and find guests and book guests and do the research and do the recording and do the editing or pay an editor. And then all the other stuff that we put out with the artwork and everything is like you just run out of time and energy. And I can't help thinking that we could do something even more, even better. I have so many ideas of things that I'd like to do, but time and money is always restricting things. So the idea would be that one day, to not do the, the Fiat land work and and to do this full time.
[00:10:17] Barry Luijbregts:
Yeah. Yeah. That's a dream, isn't it? For sure. So how is it going with boosts and sets? Is that it do you see it increasing? Is it going well?
[00:10:27] Max BBB:
That's maybe one for Jordan. Do you want to jump in on that, mate? Yeah. I'm not sure. Because like,
[00:10:33] Jordan:
I couldn't really see the boost side of it, before we started doing stuff in, in late January there So all I can say is that it's consistent And, one other thing I wanted to add in there when it comes to, monetary support is, when, Adam Anderson did, the payment boost So that's another way as well So, bringing On chain back into podcasting you know how Adam always complains about the tally coin on podcasting 2.0 Yeah, just trying to make that more of a common thing as well
[00:11:14] Max BBB:
Yeah. Definitely. Paynim is such a amazing way for people to support the show, and it's just not used by enough people, in my opinion. There's a lot of misunderstanding around it. Not that many people use it because it's not available to use in most wallets, but it stops address reuse and it's just a really clean, beautiful way for people to monetize.
[00:11:43] Barry Luijbregts:
And and what is that exactly? Can you explain it for me as a as a pleb?
[00:11:47] Max BBB:
Jordan, do you wanna jump on it?
[00:11:50] Jordan:
Yeah. Yeah. I can go for it. Yeah. So very, what it was meant to it's called, like, a serverless payment. So, if you think about like lightning a lot of the times, right, and he send solves is that, you could send lightning payments without the other person's wallet having to be online And so this works as well because, on the On Chain side because, while I don't have to be online to receive a payment I do have to give you an address to send the payment to And if I give you an address in the past you could obviously reuse that address in the future But, I would address reuse is obviously, not a good practice just from a privacy perspective And so how do you accomplish, being able to do that what you can do is, with Pay NIMs It's kind of, it's a, it's a private payment in a sense where, I create this connection to you on the blockchain, via opportune So it's just like a field within the transaction And that kind of connects us and what I can do in the future is send to your quote unquote Pay NIM which just references back to that, that opportune transaction connection that we made And I can send you, payments that I don't need to get an address from
[00:13:29] Barry Luijbregts:
okay Yeah So, so very privacy focused Yeah Okay Cool I did not know that. So maybe we can go to, a bit of the workflow here because you already mentioned that it takes a lot of time, and effort to create a show. Sure. So what what do you do? How do you start? You you mentioned that you have guests as well. So do you use something to the scheduling tool or something like that?
[00:13:57] Max BBB:
I actually don't. We're still refining the way things work. So, like, the way things used to work was just me on my own, like skating around, trying to make things work, didn't have necessarily the best systems in place. And over time things have got better. The scheduling still is just done mainly like Telegram or, you know, by email. Sometimes I don't use scheduling tools. It tends to just be me reaching out to people and saying, do you want to jump on the show? And if they say yes, okay, can you do one of these three dates and times? They choose 1. Cool. I'll send you a link. And that's how it sort of works. We might get more professional at some point and have a nice calendar request like you've sent us and learn from the master. But at the moment, it's just, yeah, it's just me pinging people and saying jump on.
But there's been less interviews recently just because of time constraints. We've done more of our monthly shows which are much easier to schedule because it is people within Ungovernal Misfits that are jumping on those. So me and John, for the 2 monthly shows that we do, the PMM and the mining I always forget the name. What's it called, Jordan?
[00:15:27] Jordan:
Action news.
[00:15:29] Max BBB:
And action news. And, then we have a Bitcoin monthly, which is more of like a rundown of the news and technical updates within Bitcoin. And that's usually with Bitcoin Q&A and Antimus who are friends and they're part of Unken Law Misfits. So it's pretty easy to, organize that. It's only when we're getting guests on, from outside of our little crew that I have to schedule.
[00:15:58] Barry Luijbregts:
Yeah. Yeah. Within, Pod Home, by the way, we're going to make that easier by integrating a tool like that, like cal.com or something. We're taking a look at which one is good. Very nice. So that you can plan your your episode. Right? You can plan your episodes, invite guests, create maybe some notes in there. Mhmm. Because it we're trying to make it as such that you don't really have to go outside of the app to do things within your podcast workflow. Right? That's that's the goal. Okay. So Got it. This would be a part of them. Yeah.
[00:16:29] Jordan:
Yeah. I've been noticing that a lot, Barry. It's becoming more and more of, like, a massive ecosystem in PodOne.
[00:16:35] Barry Luijbregts:
Yeah. We're trying. We we we don't want to do, everything like, this. For instance, we're using a recording app. We don't want to rebuild, that whole thing because, you know, took many, many years to do this, I'm sure. And lots and lots of effort. I'm not trying to recreate that type of stuff. Yeah. But just to make the workflow easier. That's all. Okay. So and then you have, right, you scheduled your guests. You can do the recording. What what happens then? How do you record? What type of gear do you have? And and then what happens?
[00:17:08] Max BBB:
So gear wise, I just use a simple yeti blue, microphone with a boom stand. Nothing fancy, but it seems to do the job okay. We currently use Zencastr for the recordings just because it records locally. If the connection drops, we have a backup. It seems to be pretty good. So that's what we're using. There might be something better out there. It's just what I've used for ages and it's done all right. That's the recording equipment. And then, for editing, we've now farmed that out. So we've, it took me about two and a half years to find an editor that was competent. I tried maybe 5 or 6 different people who it was their job, their professional editors, and I cannot believe that they were like, they were horrendous at their jobs. And so I kept trying people and then giving feedback and saying, you know, it might be an idea to maybe be slightly less shit in these areas. Could you adjust your change and slumber, blah, blah, blah, and just kept, like, bleeding money, just trying different people.
And finally, we found someone now who is very good. Took a little bit of tweaking, like 2, 3 episodes to get into the groove and understand our style, But now things are sent to him. All the individual recordings are sent over to him and he sends it back and it's kind of like 95% there. I'll still mess around and adjust a few things. I'll probably spend another maybe 3 hours on a show before it goes out after he's done his bit, but it used to be maybe 12 hours a show I'd spend. So, you know, it's it's a massive time saver.
[00:19:14] Barry Luijbregts:
Wow. 12 hours per show for editing the audio alone? Yes.
[00:19:19] Max BBB:
I'm a very, very sad individual, and sick too. That's true. But, yeah, I would just painstakingly go through. The way I looked at it is, like, I want the audience to get the absolute best out of their listening time. So if something's an hour and a half, but it could be brought down to an hour because there's a bit of waffle and umms and ahs or a technical issue or whatever the thing is, I'll tighten that up. It doesn't need to be or even if there's something where there's long pauses that don't need to be there because someone's trying to wrap their head around something or trying to explain something that's very technical and difficult to explain, I'll tighten it up because the audience don't need to go through that grief. They just want to listen and get the information.
I would spend, I would say on average 12 hours a show and I was doing that on top of my normal work and everything else and it was just getting to a point where I was getting ill all the time. John used to message me constantly saying, mate, you need to stop this. You're going to kill yourself because there was no sleep. It was just constant. But it matters to me what goes out. I'd rather not do anything at all than send something that I think, oh, that's average.
[00:20:43] Barry Luijbregts:
Yeah. Okay. And then you've done all this work, you have an editor, and then you have the audio that's all ready. What do you do next?
[00:20:53] Max BBB:
So, yeah, I do my final bits of cleaning it up. I'll then ping it into a Telegram group that Jordan has made, which is really nice and ordered. So there's lots of different sections for all the different shows, show art writing, like an incubator part for ideas that we might have everything else, and I'll just ping it across and say show is ready. And then recently, I'd like to get more involved with it. But again, it's just a time thing, honestly, like all the cool stuff from that point, everything that is done that people will see and be like, wow, that's amazing. Like the show art, all the clips, all the chapters, the gifts, everything that people will see is down to Jordan, Crown and John. I do fuck all. Like, I'll be occasionally, I'll be at work and I have, you know, a minute where I'm free and I'll quickly look and, you know, throw in a comment or a suggestion, but pretty much, none of that is down to me. It's all down to those 3.
[00:22:10] Barry Luijbregts:
K. So, Jordan, what what do you do?
[00:22:14] Jordan:
Yeah, so usually the, audio file just drops on a Friday or a Saturday. And then I say, Oh shit, time to go to work. And, usually we're trying to go for a Wednesday release Right So I kind of start with, depending on the shows So Bitcoin monthly I'm usually kind of solo between me and Crown So Crown's giving me some artwork for the show And, and then on the PMM and action news sides John's doing a lot of the heavy lifting then as well So John like crushes the show notes, does nice chapter outlines and then I kind of, so I would take his chapter outline, start mapping out the chapters. And then after I've mapped out the chapters, tied them to the timestamps, then start doing the chapter art So the gifts and the pictures and a lot of it is just like working in like, you know, like, GIMP to just like make images And a lot of it is like using the nice tool that you've made, like where it's just so easy to just grab a gift and put it in the chapter art.
And yeah, so once all the chapters are tightened up, then it's just doing like the, the more technical stuff, right? So, doing the value walk So like for instance, on the last show, on the last PMM, everyone go listen a guy in the mesh de del fundamentals He did some guitar, work for, some of the segments and the outro to the show And so I was like, Oh shoot! Like I should value time split this And he has a podcast So I know he's running a node or he's doing something that I can connect to and so that worked out well too but that's just like a little added thing when it goes to, you know, packaging up podcast so chapters, value, and then it's just tightening up, the actual show notes in the podcast.
And Yeah, I'm trying to think of anything else, but I think that's pretty much it. Yeah. Yeah. So, and yep. Artwork as well. And artwork
[00:24:43] Max BBB:
is down to Mr. Crown. So, he'll make everything look beautiful on the site, on govallmisfits.com and he will, do the like chapter art and adjust things on there. So, yeah, he gets involved with that kind of stuff or if we're doing like, you know, video promotion stuff, he'll jump in as well. Oh, I see that nonce has just joined us.
[00:25:13] Jon:
Hello. Hi. I'm very sorry.
[00:25:19] Max BBB:
Hello. Welcome.
[00:25:21] Jon:
Hi, Barry. Thank you for having us on the show. And it's it's very unlike unlike me to do something like this. So I've heard the opposite. From Matt from Matt. So don't bother me to do that. Talk about anything, especially Nate.
[00:25:40] Barry Luijbregts:
Okay. We'll we'll, get back to you as well. Maybe, let's let's finish off Jordan's story here where you create chapters, right? When did you find out or when did you want to use GIFs for chapter art?
[00:25:58] Jordan:
Okay. This was actually mostly inspired by John because I hadn't thought about GIFs at all, to be honest. And then when, when we first got like the telegram chat going and everything kind of organized, I think it was the first episode of action news. And then John just started sending me like the shitload of like, yes, sorry, pardon my language. Yeah, just started sending me all these gifts and pictures I'm like, what the heck am I gonna do with all these gifts? And then I was like, oh, well, like, I wonder if I could just like shove them in there Like, so I tried to like put them in the chapter And I think that's when I contacted you And I was like, can we do this?
So that's, that's essentially how it went down But old John
[00:26:47] Barry Luijbregts:
Okay Very cool idea Yeah You know, usually obviously that that's not permitted because of the the whole artwork spec does not allow, GIFs per se, but it seems to work very well, especially with the modern podcast apps. And even, like yeah. Even legacy apps like Apple, do show the gifts, but just as a static image. So that's the, that's the perfect fallback. Right? Yeah.
[00:27:14] Jordan:
And, Mary, just one thing to say about the gifts. So for example, like, I always talk about this one all the time, but, so Bifrost Manufacturers is one of our sponsors. What, what the gifts can also do is because they're just a flipping image is that like you could literally put like a sponsor services and just have it flip through. So like whether it's laser cutting services, CNC services, and you see this flip through while we're doing the Bifrost section of the podcast. And I just think it's so it's informational I think there's some entertainment value to it So I think GIFs are like very, very useful and it's just such a simple implementation
[00:27:58] Barry Luijbregts:
Yeah Because basically it technically it is a small video Right? For just a few frames So you can just sneak that in there so that people can actually see it, which is very cool. It's a cool idea. Yeah. Okay. So maybe we can, turn to, John if he is still on.
[00:28:17] Jon:
Hello. I'm still
[00:28:19] Barry Luijbregts:
on. Hello. Maybe you can tell your version as well as to why you do, why you podcast.
[00:28:27] Jon:
You know, we we podcast because we want to communicate with people. We have something to say and the the current means of communicating with other people, especially in the Bitcoin community is Twitter, of course, and and Noster and now things like Stacker News, which is a little bit better because you can do as long form as you want. But I'm an audio guy. I like to talk. I don't like to type. It it frustrates me. I I don't feel that I that I get that same connection with people when I'm typing something out as to when I'm speaking. And as far as what I bring to the Bitcoin community, that's that's the plug mining side of things. That's the self sovereignty. The the things that I think about, I want to communicate with other people.
And, I'm thankful to Max over the years to to give me the opportunity to be part of his podcast. The first time he and I recorded, it was just a lot of fun. And I had said to myself, this is something that I that I want to be involved in. And through our friendship and through the connection and the mesh Jadel, I was able to do that. And once you start having that kind of platform and interacting with people, via the podcast and then responding to you, half of it negative, half of it positive. So you have to be aware that quite often in in podcasting, somebody is going to latch on to that one thing that you said wrong and, just hammer it home. But it's it's very rewarding to be able to communicate with people like that, to get all of your thoughts out, to not be limited by x amount of characters.
It's kind of addictive to to a degree. You know, sometimes you think in in in for us, the in the small podcast sense, we don't have a lot of big sponsors. We're not willing to sell out our our moral foundations just to make it in podcasting, which is why I think value for value podcasting is so important. So it's almost that high that you get from communicating with people and expressing yourself that that keeps you going. If we look forward,
[00:30:49] Barry Luijbregts:
are you guys planning to keep going for many, many years? What will that take for you? As in, do you need to change something? Are you gonna change something? And what would you like to improve on maybe?
[00:31:05] Max BBB:
Certainly for me, yes. I plan on always doing this, as long as there's something interesting to talk about and, you know, everyone who's part of this group wants to continue as well because I don't think I would wanna go back to just doing it alone. It's much more fun this way, but, yeah, I'd like to do it forever. What I'd really like to do, and we touched on it earlier is to dedicate all my time to it so that we can really grow this out. I think that ungovernable misfits is unique. I think, certainly in the Bitcoin world, we are one of the only people who are speaking freely, who aren't owned.
And I think it's important for people who are coming into the space not to be sold the lies, not to misunderstand what we believe Bitcoin to be. And that's a freedom tool, not people coming in and buying the ETFs and, bending over to get fucked by the tax man and everybody else. Like all of the people who are part of ungodly misfits want people to understand what you can do with Bitcoin, how you could use it and how you can allow yourself some more freedom in life. So, we all think it matters and ideal world. I dedicate all my time to
[00:32:38] Barry Luijbregts:
it. Great. Same for you, John.
[00:32:41] Jon:
Yeah. I I I will continue to do this in in whatever whatever aspect I can. You know, Max is the linchpin of of this show, and we're we're in the periphery of it. If he goes full time with it, prepare to see, you know, and I'm not trying to kiss kiss your ass, Max, but I love it. Is it let's see. Yeah. But I'm not trying to because you love it. I don't wanna make you happy. To see this guy's full potential unleashed is is really going to be something. And, Max, you and I have talked about this person, but please do this. Give this a shot.
We all have your back. We'll all go into a a another mode, to make this happen because I feel that this show is important, that this community, the ungovernable misfits community is important because we we have to be that dissenting voice to the the cut to Bitcoin podcasts. But I feel like we have to be there. Not get any then. Not that what we say is is, you know, revelatory or or we're the only ones saying these things, but sometimes we are. But just to be a a home for for the misfits, I don't know. It's really just the, you know, the most appropriate name. We still want to be there communicating what they are saying. And and you'll notice on the show that we often just relay what other ungovernable misfits are talking about at that time.
It isn't just Max blabbering. It isn't just the guests blabbering or or or myself. We bring in all kinds of voices to be heard. And I feel it's almost our duty to keep that word out
[00:34:35] Barry Luijbregts:
there. Hey. It's beautiful, man.
[00:34:38] Max BBB:
Yeah. I I completely agree with that. I am brilliant, John. Thank you for all the kind words.
[00:34:44] Jordan:
Did you just cut did you completely cut off once I said that Max was brilliant?
[00:34:50] Max BBB:
But, no, I mean, seriously, the the groups of people that we have involved and, like, Ungovril Misfits really splits into several groups. We've got our Plaid Minor Mafia that John has pretty much built himself, built this group of incredible miners and people who are in and around that space, who have just knowledge that you can't find anywhere else and a group of people that are willing to help without all the financial incentives, without all the clicky stuff that you see everywhere else. It's just a group of real people. So being able to explain to our listeners, the information that we get from there and introduce them to these groups is important.
The mesh to Dell, the same, just groups of people who care about freedom and, people wouldn't otherwise find them. So that's important for us with the show. And then all the privacy side and security side of Bitcoin, because a lot of podcasters want you to believe that you should use custodial wallets and, all the other nonsense that is being chilled. And we don't agree with that. So it's important for us to get that word out. And if companies in the space who are paying everybody else are helping put people in prison, are helping fuck listeners over, we're going to tell people, and we'll continue to tell people because it's important.
[00:36:32] Barry Luijbregts:
Yeah. Totally agree. So, from a podcasting standpoint to keep all of this going and to make it even better than it is right now, Maybe Jordan can talk to this. Which what would you like to see from the podcast tooling side to improve or to, you know, be made into existence that doesn't exist right now? Any tools, any any functionality that you're missing?
[00:37:02] Jordan:
Okay. Well, I think the only thing would be well, I have some ideas, but, when it comes to, efficiency, Like if if there was an AI editor out there that could just like absolutely crush it I think that would be the game changer of game changers But I think Max would probably agree with that but, like, the tech isn't really there.
[00:37:29] Max BBB:
AI Addersey, you mean for the audio? Yeah. We're so far away. You sound like you just do it all within Pod Home. We're we're a 1000000 miles away. And I think specifically, like, the type of editing that we do, Again, I touched on this earlier, but, I think part of the reason that finding a good editor has been so difficult is I'm so specific on how things should sound, the pace that show you guys have no idea
[00:37:58] Jon:
how specific he is. It's ridiculous.
[00:38:02] Max BBB:
Yeah, it's very annoying to be around, but it matters to me and I don't think you're ever going to get an AI. Well, maybe not, not ever, but, we're certainly a long way away. Like when I farmed work out to other editors, it's been pretty clear to me that they've been using software or AI stuff that is supposed to take the legwork out of it, and what you get is a shoddy sounding,
[00:38:36] Jordan:
just
[00:38:37] Max BBB:
horrible, either too tight or cutting the end of words off or increasing the sound of breath too much or whatever it is. John's listened to a couple of them that we've had back from supposed to be professional editors, and it's so much worse than even the original. So we're a long way off. And at the moment, to be honest, like the editor that we're using, it's expensive and it means that we don't make any money. But if we started to earn a little bit more from the podcasting 2.0 boosts or we got some more sponsors on or have we monetize it with the clothing or whatever it is that we do, I'd be very happy to pay him. I consider him part of the Uncompromised crew. Now he's not on the site because he wants to be anonymous, but he's brilliant. I really enjoy working with him. So even if an AI did come along and it was good, I'd be like, nah. I wanna work with this guy.
[00:39:39] Barry Luijbregts:
Okay. Yeah. Totally understand. The AIs are there are things that use AI now, like, for instance, Descript, you can put this in. It creates a transcript, and then you can say, well, take out all of the umms and errs and silences and stuff. And that is very difficult to do, and it will almost always do too much or too little or
[00:39:59] Jordan:
something that you won't like. Yeah, because it's a, it's very binary in that sense Right? Like if you, if you can't find them all, then like, just don't bother Yeah, kinda Yeah in regards to other features like, wow, like I'm just going to take a second here and just, gloat about Cloud Home because it's incredible Like I had told you, like, when we first talked, Barry, like, I tried out a couple different services within the 2.0 space and it's just not even close And like if Max and John had ever ventured into, those the UIs of those things, like it it's Yeah, like I said, it's not even close Pod Homes the place to be
[00:40:45] Barry Luijbregts:
Okay. So we've talked about a lot of stuff. Maybe we can end on, on this one. What would you guys say to, podcasters or aspiring podcasters for inspiration and advice? How can they make something that is sustainable, as in that they can keep going, that maybe they enjoy, and that can bring success to them, whatever that might be for them.
[00:41:15] Jon:
I would just say keep going. That eventually you'll, you'll find your groove, whether it's your groove with your audience, with the the partners who you do the podcast with, keep going. I'm sure a lot of people have this vision in their head that, oh, man, you and I spoke last night. And wasn't that a great conversation, especially if it was a sober one? And wouldn't it be cool for other people to hear what we're talking about? And of course, this goes far beyond just, you know, the world that we exist in and Bitcoin and freedom and and self sovereignty. It could be about quilting. It could be about repairing tractors. It could be about raising chickens and regenerative agriculture.
Just keep going. You will find your identity. You'll find your vibe. Get your feedback from the audience, but don't don't take it to heart too much because people will really focus on just that one thing. Don't let the one negative Nancy get you down, and the 200 people that loved it but didn't say anything, might not be there to boost you up. Just keep going. Find your identity. Find your group.
[00:42:29] Max BBB:
Yeah. I would add to that respect your audience, and don't start thinking that you need to always chase new and more and sell out because of it by engagement farming or taking money you shouldn't or all the nonsense that you see out there. Respect the fact that you've got people who really love what you do. And I'd say it's much more important to have a real connection with the listeners that you have rather than just trying to chase the numbers. It's better to have an intimate group of people who really understand what the show is about and really care about what you're doing and you know who they are and you have a connection rather than just numbers, numbers, numbers, numbers, no engagement.
I would say that's one thing. And, 2, don't quit your day job. You know, this thing takes a very long time, or it has done for me, at least some people. It takes off straight away, but yeah, have realistic expectations of what you want from it. If you want to just earn money, it's maybe not the best idea. But if you have something that you love to talk about and you want to meet people and have these kind of discussions. And if the money comes at some point, then that's great. Then then do it.
[00:43:55] Barry Luijbregts:
Okay. That's great. Thank you guys very much for talking with me today.
[00:44:00] Max BBB:
No. Thanks for having us on, mate.
[00:44:02] Jordan:
Thanks, Barry. Thanks, Barry.
[00:44:07] AI voice:
Thanks for tuning into the show. For more episodes, go to about podcasting dot show, and remember to host your podcast on podhome.fm, the most modern podcast hosting platform.
I would spend, I would say, on average, 12 hours a show, and I was doing that on top of my normal work and everything else, and it was just getting to a point where I was getting ill all the time. I mean, John used to message me constantly saying, mate, you need to stop this. You're gonna kill yourself because it was just there was no sleep. It was just constant, but it but it matters to me what goes out. I don't I'd rather not do anything at all than send something that I think, oh, that's average.
[00:00:32] AI voice:
Welcome to about podcasting, a show for podcasters. We talk about podcasting practices, tools, successes, and failures mixed with interviews and music. Hosted on podhome.fm, the most modern podcast hosting platform.
[00:00:54] Barry Luijbregts:
Welcome to another episode of About Podcasting. This week, I am talking with The Ungovernable Misfits. This group works on The Ungovernable Misfits podcast, and I speak with 3 of them. 1 of them joined our conversation later, and that's okay. I just kept the conversation as it is. We talk about why they do what they do, how they are able to keep bad sponsors and ads away, and what their workflow is. Alright. Enjoy. Why did you start this in the first place? Why did you get into podcasting?
[00:01:33] Max BBB:
I started the podcast originally. It was, I think, the end of 2018 because I was really interested in Bitcoin and everyone in my life around me in the real world just would rather do anything other than speak to me about it. So I was just like, I guess, trying to find a way to speak to people who had interest and learn from the people that I was following on Twitter and people who really knew what they were talking about with the privacy and security side of things. And I thought, well, this is the best way for me to do it because I'm not a software developer.
I'm not built for that. I'm very, very bad at it. And, I like talking to people, so that's a good way for me to learn. And, Yeah, that's how it started. And then whatever it is, 6 years later, winning for me or like being successful for me has been the fact that the podcast has never had to sell out. We've never had to take on shitty sponsors that have hurt our listeners or, fed information that isn't true. We've always been able to say what we want and not be owned. And to me, that success, things really took a big step up in the last probably year to year and a half.
We rolled things out to Uncoverable Misfits, which is our new branding. And we added clothing. We added lots of things like that. Mr. Crown came on board and helped with a lot of the artwork and the website, and he's been just a massive change to the quality of what we put out. Then John came along. He's a useless fuck and he's not here today because he doesn't know how to manage time, but he knows a lot about mining. And when he says something, he's, when he says he's going to do something, he does it. And I really like working with him. He came on after I did an interview with him and instantly got on really well. We started doing our mining show and PMM, and then Jordan came on very shortly afterwards.
I was listening to the show, likes what we were doing and offered help. I said to Jordan, look, we're not in a position where we can offer a job or payment or do anything like this. Isn't it's a successful podcast in the fact that we can do what we want, but not necessarily financially. And he said, I don't care. I just want to hear some truth. Let me help. And since children's come on board, things have really, again, taken a big step up. And the quality of what we're doing is I mean, far better than it was before and, and also changing across to Pod Homes. So, maybe Jordan can take it from there, but, that's kind of the history of it.
[00:04:50] Barry Luijbregts:
Okay. Awesome. And so what's your role now in all of this, Jordan?
[00:04:58] Jordan:
Well You're a no agenda listener Right, Barry? Yes Yeah So like in that instance I like to think of myself as like the Drep Scott to, Don Dove all misfits just the idea of like doing the back behind the scenes kind of stuff So whether it's chapters or any any technological things that have to do with the podcast and then also just buttoning everything up and you know, when the product goes out everything's kind of like wrapped up in a bow and ready for the listener
[00:05:34] Barry Luijbregts:
Yeah Okay. And we'll we'll go into workflow and and what you actually do there, for instance, with the GIF, chapter art and all that crazy stuff, later. Maybe, let's pick on something that you mentioned there, Max, where you did not sell out to, crappy sponsors and stuff. Does that mean that you do monetize with ads and sponsors?
[00:06:03] Max BBB:
It does. Yeah. We have got sponsors, but we are very, very careful who we choose, and have done from the beginning. So it's important that none of our sponsors collect data on our listeners. We care about their privacy. Mhmm. We make sure that we're not putting our listeners, potentially in harm's way because if data is being collected by these companies, whether they sell it, whether they're collaborating with government agencies or doing anything in the back end or they just get hacked and all the information leaks, it puts our listeners in harm's way and that's not acceptable to us. No matter how much money is waived in front of our faces, we will never do that.
So that's one of the criteria. And then the other is ideally that there's no risk on the back end. So when we're working with a sponsor, it's important that it's not people putting money down with the potential to either make more or get it back. It's only they're buying a product or service that is extremely clear and they buy it and they get it rather than, I don't know, some of this yield nonsense and all this kind of stuff that a lot of people were selling or taking money for minors that may arrive in the future, but you're not guaranteed a slot, that kind of stuff that went on with most podcasts. They took that money, and then listeners got fucked, so we won't do that. What we're really trying to push towards is ideally that we could do podcasting 2.0, lightning payments and boosts to sustain it.
That would be the dream and not have to have any sponsors at all. But the reality is that some of the sponsors we are just very happy with. Like, we are proud to talk about what they do, and so we don't see that as an issue. But, the big money, as everyone knows, is with the exchanges and the ones that have the risk, but we won't touch that.
[00:08:29] Barry Luijbregts:
Right. Okay. And so now you do a mix of, the sponsors and then podcasting 2.0 with lightning payments, with streaming, and with sets. Right? Yeah. That's right. Yeah.
[00:08:43] Max BBB:
So we're trying to lean in as much as we can with the podcasting 2.0 and the boosts, but, you know, the truth is it costs a lot of money to produce the show. It takes a huge amount of hours, and we have to just cover our ass. Like, all of us are working normal jobs or 2 normal jobs and doing this on top, and we just need to cover some of the editing costs and bits and pieces. And ideally, one day it would be nice if it actually helped us financially and we could put more of our time into it because it's something I've talked to Jordan a lot about and the rest of the guys is like often when you're working a normal job and you've got family and everything else, like if I'm doing 60 hours a week and then I've got family on top And then I've somehow got to do all the stuff with the podcast and find guests and book guests and do the research and do the recording and do the editing or pay an editor. And then all the other stuff that we put out with the artwork and everything is like you just run out of time and energy. And I can't help thinking that we could do something even more, even better. I have so many ideas of things that I'd like to do, but time and money is always restricting things. So the idea would be that one day, to not do the, the Fiat land work and and to do this full time.
[00:10:17] Barry Luijbregts:
Yeah. Yeah. That's a dream, isn't it? For sure. So how is it going with boosts and sets? Is that it do you see it increasing? Is it going well?
[00:10:27] Max BBB:
That's maybe one for Jordan. Do you want to jump in on that, mate? Yeah. I'm not sure. Because like,
[00:10:33] Jordan:
I couldn't really see the boost side of it, before we started doing stuff in, in late January there So all I can say is that it's consistent And, one other thing I wanted to add in there when it comes to, monetary support is, when, Adam Anderson did, the payment boost So that's another way as well So, bringing On chain back into podcasting you know how Adam always complains about the tally coin on podcasting 2.0 Yeah, just trying to make that more of a common thing as well
[00:11:14] Max BBB:
Yeah. Definitely. Paynim is such a amazing way for people to support the show, and it's just not used by enough people, in my opinion. There's a lot of misunderstanding around it. Not that many people use it because it's not available to use in most wallets, but it stops address reuse and it's just a really clean, beautiful way for people to monetize.
[00:11:43] Barry Luijbregts:
And and what is that exactly? Can you explain it for me as a as a pleb?
[00:11:47] Max BBB:
Jordan, do you wanna jump on it?
[00:11:50] Jordan:
Yeah. Yeah. I can go for it. Yeah. So very, what it was meant to it's called, like, a serverless payment. So, if you think about like lightning a lot of the times, right, and he send solves is that, you could send lightning payments without the other person's wallet having to be online And so this works as well because, on the On Chain side because, while I don't have to be online to receive a payment I do have to give you an address to send the payment to And if I give you an address in the past you could obviously reuse that address in the future But, I would address reuse is obviously, not a good practice just from a privacy perspective And so how do you accomplish, being able to do that what you can do is, with Pay NIMs It's kind of, it's a, it's a private payment in a sense where, I create this connection to you on the blockchain, via opportune So it's just like a field within the transaction And that kind of connects us and what I can do in the future is send to your quote unquote Pay NIM which just references back to that, that opportune transaction connection that we made And I can send you, payments that I don't need to get an address from
[00:13:29] Barry Luijbregts:
okay Yeah So, so very privacy focused Yeah Okay Cool I did not know that. So maybe we can go to, a bit of the workflow here because you already mentioned that it takes a lot of time, and effort to create a show. Sure. So what what do you do? How do you start? You you mentioned that you have guests as well. So do you use something to the scheduling tool or something like that?
[00:13:57] Max BBB:
I actually don't. We're still refining the way things work. So, like, the way things used to work was just me on my own, like skating around, trying to make things work, didn't have necessarily the best systems in place. And over time things have got better. The scheduling still is just done mainly like Telegram or, you know, by email. Sometimes I don't use scheduling tools. It tends to just be me reaching out to people and saying, do you want to jump on the show? And if they say yes, okay, can you do one of these three dates and times? They choose 1. Cool. I'll send you a link. And that's how it sort of works. We might get more professional at some point and have a nice calendar request like you've sent us and learn from the master. But at the moment, it's just, yeah, it's just me pinging people and saying jump on.
But there's been less interviews recently just because of time constraints. We've done more of our monthly shows which are much easier to schedule because it is people within Ungovernal Misfits that are jumping on those. So me and John, for the 2 monthly shows that we do, the PMM and the mining I always forget the name. What's it called, Jordan?
[00:15:27] Jordan:
Action news.
[00:15:29] Max BBB:
And action news. And, then we have a Bitcoin monthly, which is more of like a rundown of the news and technical updates within Bitcoin. And that's usually with Bitcoin Q&A and Antimus who are friends and they're part of Unken Law Misfits. So it's pretty easy to, organize that. It's only when we're getting guests on, from outside of our little crew that I have to schedule.
[00:15:58] Barry Luijbregts:
Yeah. Yeah. Within, Pod Home, by the way, we're going to make that easier by integrating a tool like that, like cal.com or something. We're taking a look at which one is good. Very nice. So that you can plan your your episode. Right? You can plan your episodes, invite guests, create maybe some notes in there. Mhmm. Because it we're trying to make it as such that you don't really have to go outside of the app to do things within your podcast workflow. Right? That's that's the goal. Okay. So Got it. This would be a part of them. Yeah.
[00:16:29] Jordan:
Yeah. I've been noticing that a lot, Barry. It's becoming more and more of, like, a massive ecosystem in PodOne.
[00:16:35] Barry Luijbregts:
Yeah. We're trying. We we we don't want to do, everything like, this. For instance, we're using a recording app. We don't want to rebuild, that whole thing because, you know, took many, many years to do this, I'm sure. And lots and lots of effort. I'm not trying to recreate that type of stuff. Yeah. But just to make the workflow easier. That's all. Okay. So and then you have, right, you scheduled your guests. You can do the recording. What what happens then? How do you record? What type of gear do you have? And and then what happens?
[00:17:08] Max BBB:
So gear wise, I just use a simple yeti blue, microphone with a boom stand. Nothing fancy, but it seems to do the job okay. We currently use Zencastr for the recordings just because it records locally. If the connection drops, we have a backup. It seems to be pretty good. So that's what we're using. There might be something better out there. It's just what I've used for ages and it's done all right. That's the recording equipment. And then, for editing, we've now farmed that out. So we've, it took me about two and a half years to find an editor that was competent. I tried maybe 5 or 6 different people who it was their job, their professional editors, and I cannot believe that they were like, they were horrendous at their jobs. And so I kept trying people and then giving feedback and saying, you know, it might be an idea to maybe be slightly less shit in these areas. Could you adjust your change and slumber, blah, blah, blah, and just kept, like, bleeding money, just trying different people.
And finally, we found someone now who is very good. Took a little bit of tweaking, like 2, 3 episodes to get into the groove and understand our style, But now things are sent to him. All the individual recordings are sent over to him and he sends it back and it's kind of like 95% there. I'll still mess around and adjust a few things. I'll probably spend another maybe 3 hours on a show before it goes out after he's done his bit, but it used to be maybe 12 hours a show I'd spend. So, you know, it's it's a massive time saver.
[00:19:14] Barry Luijbregts:
Wow. 12 hours per show for editing the audio alone? Yes.
[00:19:19] Max BBB:
I'm a very, very sad individual, and sick too. That's true. But, yeah, I would just painstakingly go through. The way I looked at it is, like, I want the audience to get the absolute best out of their listening time. So if something's an hour and a half, but it could be brought down to an hour because there's a bit of waffle and umms and ahs or a technical issue or whatever the thing is, I'll tighten that up. It doesn't need to be or even if there's something where there's long pauses that don't need to be there because someone's trying to wrap their head around something or trying to explain something that's very technical and difficult to explain, I'll tighten it up because the audience don't need to go through that grief. They just want to listen and get the information.
I would spend, I would say on average 12 hours a show and I was doing that on top of my normal work and everything else and it was just getting to a point where I was getting ill all the time. John used to message me constantly saying, mate, you need to stop this. You're going to kill yourself because there was no sleep. It was just constant. But it matters to me what goes out. I'd rather not do anything at all than send something that I think, oh, that's average.
[00:20:43] Barry Luijbregts:
Yeah. Okay. And then you've done all this work, you have an editor, and then you have the audio that's all ready. What do you do next?
[00:20:53] Max BBB:
So, yeah, I do my final bits of cleaning it up. I'll then ping it into a Telegram group that Jordan has made, which is really nice and ordered. So there's lots of different sections for all the different shows, show art writing, like an incubator part for ideas that we might have everything else, and I'll just ping it across and say show is ready. And then recently, I'd like to get more involved with it. But again, it's just a time thing, honestly, like all the cool stuff from that point, everything that is done that people will see and be like, wow, that's amazing. Like the show art, all the clips, all the chapters, the gifts, everything that people will see is down to Jordan, Crown and John. I do fuck all. Like, I'll be occasionally, I'll be at work and I have, you know, a minute where I'm free and I'll quickly look and, you know, throw in a comment or a suggestion, but pretty much, none of that is down to me. It's all down to those 3.
[00:22:10] Barry Luijbregts:
K. So, Jordan, what what do you do?
[00:22:14] Jordan:
Yeah, so usually the, audio file just drops on a Friday or a Saturday. And then I say, Oh shit, time to go to work. And, usually we're trying to go for a Wednesday release Right So I kind of start with, depending on the shows So Bitcoin monthly I'm usually kind of solo between me and Crown So Crown's giving me some artwork for the show And, and then on the PMM and action news sides John's doing a lot of the heavy lifting then as well So John like crushes the show notes, does nice chapter outlines and then I kind of, so I would take his chapter outline, start mapping out the chapters. And then after I've mapped out the chapters, tied them to the timestamps, then start doing the chapter art So the gifts and the pictures and a lot of it is just like working in like, you know, like, GIMP to just like make images And a lot of it is like using the nice tool that you've made, like where it's just so easy to just grab a gift and put it in the chapter art.
And yeah, so once all the chapters are tightened up, then it's just doing like the, the more technical stuff, right? So, doing the value walk So like for instance, on the last show, on the last PMM, everyone go listen a guy in the mesh de del fundamentals He did some guitar, work for, some of the segments and the outro to the show And so I was like, Oh shoot! Like I should value time split this And he has a podcast So I know he's running a node or he's doing something that I can connect to and so that worked out well too but that's just like a little added thing when it goes to, you know, packaging up podcast so chapters, value, and then it's just tightening up, the actual show notes in the podcast.
And Yeah, I'm trying to think of anything else, but I think that's pretty much it. Yeah. Yeah. So, and yep. Artwork as well. And artwork
[00:24:43] Max BBB:
is down to Mr. Crown. So, he'll make everything look beautiful on the site, on govallmisfits.com and he will, do the like chapter art and adjust things on there. So, yeah, he gets involved with that kind of stuff or if we're doing like, you know, video promotion stuff, he'll jump in as well. Oh, I see that nonce has just joined us.
[00:25:13] Jon:
Hello. Hi. I'm very sorry.
[00:25:19] Max BBB:
Hello. Welcome.
[00:25:21] Jon:
Hi, Barry. Thank you for having us on the show. And it's it's very unlike unlike me to do something like this. So I've heard the opposite. From Matt from Matt. So don't bother me to do that. Talk about anything, especially Nate.
[00:25:40] Barry Luijbregts:
Okay. We'll we'll, get back to you as well. Maybe, let's let's finish off Jordan's story here where you create chapters, right? When did you find out or when did you want to use GIFs for chapter art?
[00:25:58] Jordan:
Okay. This was actually mostly inspired by John because I hadn't thought about GIFs at all, to be honest. And then when, when we first got like the telegram chat going and everything kind of organized, I think it was the first episode of action news. And then John just started sending me like the shitload of like, yes, sorry, pardon my language. Yeah, just started sending me all these gifts and pictures I'm like, what the heck am I gonna do with all these gifts? And then I was like, oh, well, like, I wonder if I could just like shove them in there Like, so I tried to like put them in the chapter And I think that's when I contacted you And I was like, can we do this?
So that's, that's essentially how it went down But old John
[00:26:47] Barry Luijbregts:
Okay Very cool idea Yeah You know, usually obviously that that's not permitted because of the the whole artwork spec does not allow, GIFs per se, but it seems to work very well, especially with the modern podcast apps. And even, like yeah. Even legacy apps like Apple, do show the gifts, but just as a static image. So that's the, that's the perfect fallback. Right? Yeah.
[00:27:14] Jordan:
And, Mary, just one thing to say about the gifts. So for example, like, I always talk about this one all the time, but, so Bifrost Manufacturers is one of our sponsors. What, what the gifts can also do is because they're just a flipping image is that like you could literally put like a sponsor services and just have it flip through. So like whether it's laser cutting services, CNC services, and you see this flip through while we're doing the Bifrost section of the podcast. And I just think it's so it's informational I think there's some entertainment value to it So I think GIFs are like very, very useful and it's just such a simple implementation
[00:27:58] Barry Luijbregts:
Yeah Because basically it technically it is a small video Right? For just a few frames So you can just sneak that in there so that people can actually see it, which is very cool. It's a cool idea. Yeah. Okay. So maybe we can, turn to, John if he is still on.
[00:28:17] Jon:
Hello. I'm still
[00:28:19] Barry Luijbregts:
on. Hello. Maybe you can tell your version as well as to why you do, why you podcast.
[00:28:27] Jon:
You know, we we podcast because we want to communicate with people. We have something to say and the the current means of communicating with other people, especially in the Bitcoin community is Twitter, of course, and and Noster and now things like Stacker News, which is a little bit better because you can do as long form as you want. But I'm an audio guy. I like to talk. I don't like to type. It it frustrates me. I I don't feel that I that I get that same connection with people when I'm typing something out as to when I'm speaking. And as far as what I bring to the Bitcoin community, that's that's the plug mining side of things. That's the self sovereignty. The the things that I think about, I want to communicate with other people.
And, I'm thankful to Max over the years to to give me the opportunity to be part of his podcast. The first time he and I recorded, it was just a lot of fun. And I had said to myself, this is something that I that I want to be involved in. And through our friendship and through the connection and the mesh Jadel, I was able to do that. And once you start having that kind of platform and interacting with people, via the podcast and then responding to you, half of it negative, half of it positive. So you have to be aware that quite often in in podcasting, somebody is going to latch on to that one thing that you said wrong and, just hammer it home. But it's it's very rewarding to be able to communicate with people like that, to get all of your thoughts out, to not be limited by x amount of characters.
It's kind of addictive to to a degree. You know, sometimes you think in in in for us, the in the small podcast sense, we don't have a lot of big sponsors. We're not willing to sell out our our moral foundations just to make it in podcasting, which is why I think value for value podcasting is so important. So it's almost that high that you get from communicating with people and expressing yourself that that keeps you going. If we look forward,
[00:30:49] Barry Luijbregts:
are you guys planning to keep going for many, many years? What will that take for you? As in, do you need to change something? Are you gonna change something? And what would you like to improve on maybe?
[00:31:05] Max BBB:
Certainly for me, yes. I plan on always doing this, as long as there's something interesting to talk about and, you know, everyone who's part of this group wants to continue as well because I don't think I would wanna go back to just doing it alone. It's much more fun this way, but, yeah, I'd like to do it forever. What I'd really like to do, and we touched on it earlier is to dedicate all my time to it so that we can really grow this out. I think that ungovernable misfits is unique. I think, certainly in the Bitcoin world, we are one of the only people who are speaking freely, who aren't owned.
And I think it's important for people who are coming into the space not to be sold the lies, not to misunderstand what we believe Bitcoin to be. And that's a freedom tool, not people coming in and buying the ETFs and, bending over to get fucked by the tax man and everybody else. Like all of the people who are part of ungodly misfits want people to understand what you can do with Bitcoin, how you could use it and how you can allow yourself some more freedom in life. So, we all think it matters and ideal world. I dedicate all my time to
[00:32:38] Barry Luijbregts:
it. Great. Same for you, John.
[00:32:41] Jon:
Yeah. I I I will continue to do this in in whatever whatever aspect I can. You know, Max is the linchpin of of this show, and we're we're in the periphery of it. If he goes full time with it, prepare to see, you know, and I'm not trying to kiss kiss your ass, Max, but I love it. Is it let's see. Yeah. But I'm not trying to because you love it. I don't wanna make you happy. To see this guy's full potential unleashed is is really going to be something. And, Max, you and I have talked about this person, but please do this. Give this a shot.
We all have your back. We'll all go into a a another mode, to make this happen because I feel that this show is important, that this community, the ungovernable misfits community is important because we we have to be that dissenting voice to the the cut to Bitcoin podcasts. But I feel like we have to be there. Not get any then. Not that what we say is is, you know, revelatory or or we're the only ones saying these things, but sometimes we are. But just to be a a home for for the misfits, I don't know. It's really just the, you know, the most appropriate name. We still want to be there communicating what they are saying. And and you'll notice on the show that we often just relay what other ungovernable misfits are talking about at that time.
It isn't just Max blabbering. It isn't just the guests blabbering or or or myself. We bring in all kinds of voices to be heard. And I feel it's almost our duty to keep that word out
[00:34:35] Barry Luijbregts:
there. Hey. It's beautiful, man.
[00:34:38] Max BBB:
Yeah. I I completely agree with that. I am brilliant, John. Thank you for all the kind words.
[00:34:44] Jordan:
Did you just cut did you completely cut off once I said that Max was brilliant?
[00:34:50] Max BBB:
But, no, I mean, seriously, the the groups of people that we have involved and, like, Ungovril Misfits really splits into several groups. We've got our Plaid Minor Mafia that John has pretty much built himself, built this group of incredible miners and people who are in and around that space, who have just knowledge that you can't find anywhere else and a group of people that are willing to help without all the financial incentives, without all the clicky stuff that you see everywhere else. It's just a group of real people. So being able to explain to our listeners, the information that we get from there and introduce them to these groups is important.
The mesh to Dell, the same, just groups of people who care about freedom and, people wouldn't otherwise find them. So that's important for us with the show. And then all the privacy side and security side of Bitcoin, because a lot of podcasters want you to believe that you should use custodial wallets and, all the other nonsense that is being chilled. And we don't agree with that. So it's important for us to get that word out. And if companies in the space who are paying everybody else are helping put people in prison, are helping fuck listeners over, we're going to tell people, and we'll continue to tell people because it's important.
[00:36:32] Barry Luijbregts:
Yeah. Totally agree. So, from a podcasting standpoint to keep all of this going and to make it even better than it is right now, Maybe Jordan can talk to this. Which what would you like to see from the podcast tooling side to improve or to, you know, be made into existence that doesn't exist right now? Any tools, any any functionality that you're missing?
[00:37:02] Jordan:
Okay. Well, I think the only thing would be well, I have some ideas, but, when it comes to, efficiency, Like if if there was an AI editor out there that could just like absolutely crush it I think that would be the game changer of game changers But I think Max would probably agree with that but, like, the tech isn't really there.
[00:37:29] Max BBB:
AI Addersey, you mean for the audio? Yeah. We're so far away. You sound like you just do it all within Pod Home. We're we're a 1000000 miles away. And I think specifically, like, the type of editing that we do, Again, I touched on this earlier, but, I think part of the reason that finding a good editor has been so difficult is I'm so specific on how things should sound, the pace that show you guys have no idea
[00:37:58] Jon:
how specific he is. It's ridiculous.
[00:38:02] Max BBB:
Yeah, it's very annoying to be around, but it matters to me and I don't think you're ever going to get an AI. Well, maybe not, not ever, but, we're certainly a long way away. Like when I farmed work out to other editors, it's been pretty clear to me that they've been using software or AI stuff that is supposed to take the legwork out of it, and what you get is a shoddy sounding,
[00:38:36] Jordan:
just
[00:38:37] Max BBB:
horrible, either too tight or cutting the end of words off or increasing the sound of breath too much or whatever it is. John's listened to a couple of them that we've had back from supposed to be professional editors, and it's so much worse than even the original. So we're a long way off. And at the moment, to be honest, like the editor that we're using, it's expensive and it means that we don't make any money. But if we started to earn a little bit more from the podcasting 2.0 boosts or we got some more sponsors on or have we monetize it with the clothing or whatever it is that we do, I'd be very happy to pay him. I consider him part of the Uncompromised crew. Now he's not on the site because he wants to be anonymous, but he's brilliant. I really enjoy working with him. So even if an AI did come along and it was good, I'd be like, nah. I wanna work with this guy.
[00:39:39] Barry Luijbregts:
Okay. Yeah. Totally understand. The AIs are there are things that use AI now, like, for instance, Descript, you can put this in. It creates a transcript, and then you can say, well, take out all of the umms and errs and silences and stuff. And that is very difficult to do, and it will almost always do too much or too little or
[00:39:59] Jordan:
something that you won't like. Yeah, because it's a, it's very binary in that sense Right? Like if you, if you can't find them all, then like, just don't bother Yeah, kinda Yeah in regards to other features like, wow, like I'm just going to take a second here and just, gloat about Cloud Home because it's incredible Like I had told you, like, when we first talked, Barry, like, I tried out a couple different services within the 2.0 space and it's just not even close And like if Max and John had ever ventured into, those the UIs of those things, like it it's Yeah, like I said, it's not even close Pod Homes the place to be
[00:40:45] Barry Luijbregts:
Okay. So we've talked about a lot of stuff. Maybe we can end on, on this one. What would you guys say to, podcasters or aspiring podcasters for inspiration and advice? How can they make something that is sustainable, as in that they can keep going, that maybe they enjoy, and that can bring success to them, whatever that might be for them.
[00:41:15] Jon:
I would just say keep going. That eventually you'll, you'll find your groove, whether it's your groove with your audience, with the the partners who you do the podcast with, keep going. I'm sure a lot of people have this vision in their head that, oh, man, you and I spoke last night. And wasn't that a great conversation, especially if it was a sober one? And wouldn't it be cool for other people to hear what we're talking about? And of course, this goes far beyond just, you know, the world that we exist in and Bitcoin and freedom and and self sovereignty. It could be about quilting. It could be about repairing tractors. It could be about raising chickens and regenerative agriculture.
Just keep going. You will find your identity. You'll find your vibe. Get your feedback from the audience, but don't don't take it to heart too much because people will really focus on just that one thing. Don't let the one negative Nancy get you down, and the 200 people that loved it but didn't say anything, might not be there to boost you up. Just keep going. Find your identity. Find your group.
[00:42:29] Max BBB:
Yeah. I would add to that respect your audience, and don't start thinking that you need to always chase new and more and sell out because of it by engagement farming or taking money you shouldn't or all the nonsense that you see out there. Respect the fact that you've got people who really love what you do. And I'd say it's much more important to have a real connection with the listeners that you have rather than just trying to chase the numbers. It's better to have an intimate group of people who really understand what the show is about and really care about what you're doing and you know who they are and you have a connection rather than just numbers, numbers, numbers, numbers, no engagement.
I would say that's one thing. And, 2, don't quit your day job. You know, this thing takes a very long time, or it has done for me, at least some people. It takes off straight away, but yeah, have realistic expectations of what you want from it. If you want to just earn money, it's maybe not the best idea. But if you have something that you love to talk about and you want to meet people and have these kind of discussions. And if the money comes at some point, then that's great. Then then do it.
[00:43:55] Barry Luijbregts:
Okay. That's great. Thank you guys very much for talking with me today.
[00:44:00] Max BBB:
No. Thanks for having us on, mate.
[00:44:02] Jordan:
Thanks, Barry. Thanks, Barry.
[00:44:07] AI voice:
Thanks for tuning into the show. For more episodes, go to about podcasting dot show, and remember to host your podcast on podhome.fm, the most modern podcast hosting platform.
Introduction to About Podcasting
Interview with The Ungovernable Misfits
Origins and Motivation for Podcasting
Maintaining Integrity and Avoiding Bad Sponsors
Monetization Strategies and Challenges
Balancing Podcasting with Day Jobs
Podcast Workflow and Tools
Editing Challenges and Solutions
Innovative Use of GIFs in Chapter Art
Future Improvements and AI in Podcasting
Advice for Aspiring Podcasters
